> Frankie Armstrong > Songs > The Old Man From Over the Sea
The Old Man From Lee / The Old Man From Over the Sea / A Dottered Auld Carle
[
Roud 362
/ Song Subject MAS141
; Master title: The Old Man From Lee
; G/D 4:815
; Ballad Index R066
; GlosTrad
Roud 362
; Wiltshire
189
, 908
; OldShoes at Old Songs
; DT OLDSHOE1
, OLDSHOE2
; Mudcat 19426
; trad.]
Steve Gardham: A Yorkshire Songster Gavin Greig: Folk-Song of the North-East Mike Harding: Folk Songs of Lancashire Kathy Henderson with Frankie Armstrong and Sandra Kerr: My Song Is My Own David Herd: Ancient and Modern Scottish Songs, Heroic Ballads, etc., Second Volume Mary and Nigel Hudleston: Songs of the Ridings Maud Karpeles: Cecil Sharp’s Collection of English Folk Songs Peter Kennedy: Folksongs of Britain and Ireland Roy Palmer: Songs of the Midlands James Porter and Herschel Gower: Jeannie Robertson: Emergent Singer, Transformative Voice Frank Purslow: Marrow Bones Vance Randolph: Ozark Folksongs Jean Ritchie: Folk Songs of the Southern Appalachians Peggy Seeger, Ewan MacColl: The Singing Island Cecil J. Sharp: English Folk Songs From the Southern Appalachians Ralph Vaughan Williams and A.L. Lloyd: The Penguin Book of English Folk Songs Alfred Williams: Folk-Songs of the Upper Thames
Uncle Eck Dunford recorded Old Shoes and Leggins in Bristol, Tennessee, on 31 October 1928. This recording was originally issued on Victor V-400608 and was included in 1952 on the Anthology of American Folk Music Volume One: Ballads.
The Old Man From Lee was collected by G.E. McCleay from an unnamed singer from Coggeshall, Essex, This was printed in the Journal of the English Folk Song Society 3 (1937) and in 1959 in Ralph Vaughan Williams and A.L. Lloyd’s Penguin Book of English Folk Songs They commented:
The old man’s courtship is an ancient joke of which country folk never seemed to tire. In a form similar to the one we publish, the song appeared in the Musical Miscellany (London) in 1730. It seems to be widespread in Scotland, and Sharp found it common in the West Country. Versions have been reported from Yorkshire, Worcestershire, and Wiltshire. Our text is amplified from the Wiltshire version.
Jeannie Robertson sang Old Grey Beard Newly Shaven in a recording made by Peter Kennedy in Aberdeen in 1953 that was included on the anthology Songs of Courtship (The Folk Songs of Britain Volume 1; Caedmon 1961; Topic 1968). Peter Kennedy noted:
Jeannie Robertson’s people are all Stewarts—descendants, they believe, of the Royal Stewarts who had to take to the roads in Jacobite times and win their bread as itinerant musicians. Certainly these Stewarts are a handsome, musical set of people. Jeannie’s childhood was filled with music, as many of her relatives sang ballads and played the pipes, and today she is regarded by many connoisseurs as the finest traditional ballad singer in Great Britain.
Here she takes up, with evident relish, a favourite British-American folk theme—the satire on a scheming mother who tries to force a rich old man on her lively daughter. Jeannie’s tune is similar to the one she uses for The Gypsy Laddie (The Child Ballads 2, Side A, No. 8 in this set), but, given a different rhythmic attack, it seems quite fresh. Another song with the same theme, but in a bawdy vein, is her Never Wed an Auld Man (Songs of Seduction, Side B, No. 7 in this set).
A live recording of Jeannie Robertson singing A Dottered Auld Carle made by Hamish Henderson in Edinburgh in 1958 was published in 1984 on her Lismore album Up the Dee and Doon the Don. Another recording of The Dottered Auld Carle made in 1960 was released in 1963 on her Prestige album The Cuckoo’s Nest and Other Scottish Folk Songs..
Ewan MacColl sang the Irish version His Old Grey Beard Kept Waggin’ and Peggy Seeger sang the American Overshoes and Leggins in 1957 on their Riverside album Matching Songs of the British Isles and America. Kenneth S. Goldstein noted:
This is the old English song known as The Old Man Who Came Over the Moor, and dates back to at least the first half of the 18th century. Though all variants of the song are nearly identical in the story of unwelcome courtship which they unfold, there are two distinct forms of the song, characterised by the refrain ending. The Old Grey Beard burden in the Dublin version sung by MacColl is found in most Scottish and Irish variants, though it has also been recorded from American and English tradition. The Overshoes and Leggins refrain is typical of most American and English texts. Mr. MacColl’s Irish version, sung to an interesting variant of The Old Orange Flute air, is from the singing of Brenden Behan of Dublin. Miss Seeger’s version was learned from a 1929 recording by Uncle Eck Dunford.
Frankie Armstrong sang The Old Man From Over the Sea in 1966 on the Topic theme album of traditional erotic songs, The Bird in the Bush. A.L. Lloyd noted:
Traditionally, parents with a marriageable daughter think of material advantage, while the girl’s mind runs on (let’s say) spiritual things. From this situation arises a crop of songs that common people never seem to tire of. This one was already printed on a ballad-sheet in Shakespeare’s time, and doubtless it wasn’t new then. It’s widely known throughout Britain and the USA in varying degrees of ribaldry. Perhaps it’s the mixture of sardonic humour and hot indignation that makes its special appeal. Question: Who originally composed it, a man or a woman? The song on the same theme, with some such refrain as “Maids, When You’re Young, Never Wed an Old Man” is separate from this one, and of later composition.
Avice Clarke sang With His Head-a-Nodding to Sam Richards, Tish Stubbs and Paul Wilson in between 1974 and 1976. This recording was published in 1979 on the Topic anthology Devon Tradition. Sam Richards, Tish Stubbs and Paul Wilson noted:
Turning to the non-travellers, there is less unity of style. Bill Parnell’s parody Irish performance of With Me Navvy Boots On displays a gift for theatricality—something more in evidence amongst non-travellers generally. Nobby Clarke’s clear and controlled Exmoor Ram (Derby of course) keeps the theatrical qualities slightly more buried, but the twinkle bubbles under the surface just the same. With His Head A-Nodding is a rare piece although once widespread. Avice Clarke, one of the youngest singers on this record, learned it from a schoolfriend.
Jane Turriff of Mintlaw, Aberdeenshire, sang Wi His Grey Baird Newly Shaven in 1975 to Allie Munro and Tom Atkinson. This recording was included in 1996 on her Springthyme anthology Singin Is Ma Life. Peter Shepheard noted:
Jane got this song from her mother. Hamish Henderson had recorded the song from Jeannie Robertson in 1954 and it has since become well known in the folk revival.
Kevin Mitchell sang The Oul’ Grey Man on his 1977 Topic album of Irish traditional songs and ballads, Free and Easy. John Moulden noted:
The late Jeannie Robertson of Aberdeen had this song in four verses beginning “Hold your tongue, dear Sally”—one case among many of song sharing between Ulster and Scotland; but who is to say which is the original? The theme is a common one but has special relevance in economically depressed farming areas where, because the land would support no more people, a man’s marriage would have to wait upon the death of his father and his inheritance of the holding. If ugly daughters could be made “puny with cows”, then old men, well endowed with goods, would be eagerly sought by matchmaking parents with a hope of increasing their own store or of getting away without paying a dowry (see Morton, Folksongs Sung in Ulster, p. 17). Kevin heard this from a lady who used to attend e weekly session of Innishowen people which was held some years ago, in Buncrana, Co. Donegal. The air is similar to that printed in Morton, Folksongs Sung in Ulster, p. 36.
Lizzie Higgins sang The Dottered Auld Carle in 1977 at the Jeannie Robertson Memorial Concert. This recording was included in 2006 on her Musical Traditions anthology In Memory of Lizzie Higgins. Rod Stradling noted:
Another very popular song in Roud with 131 entries, although two-thirds of those are from the USA. England and Scotland have more or less equal numbers of instances, while Ireland has only one. Despite the existence of 30 sound recordings, the only other one Roud mentions as available on CD is Mabs Hall on Veteran VTC5CD When the Wind Blows.
When Allan Ramsay (Poems, 1721) printed The Carle He Cam O’er the Croft he was probably not the first to recount this perennial scene, but his was a much more overblown and frankly venomous demolition of a wealthy but elderly suitor than Lizzie’s neatly hilarious version. Almost as comical is Jane Turriff’s jaunty, Wi His Grey Baird on Singin Is Ma Life, Springthyme SPRCD 1038. Both Jeannie and Lizzie learned this song from Donald, and both performed it.
Mabs Hall of Billinghurst, Sussex, sang Old Grey Noddle to Mike Yates at Billinghurst, Sussex on 15 June 1985 to Mike Yates. This recording was released in 1988 on the Veteran Tapes cassette The Horkey Load Vol. 1 and in 2001 on the Veteran CD anthology of traditional folk music from coastal England, When the Wind Blows. Mike Yates noted:
Many collectors have linked this song with The Baillie of Benwick, a song which tells more or less the same story. Alfred Williams found it in the Thames Valley and Robert Bell included a text in his Ballads and Songs of the Peasantry of England (1857). An American traditional version was recorded commercially in 1929 by the Virginian singer and musician A.C. ‘Uncle Eck’ Dunford.
Her son Gordon Hall sang Old Grey Noddle in a home recording made in the early 1990s that was included on his cassette anthology Warts & Hall.
Grace Notes sang The Old Man From Lee in 2007 on their Fellside album Northern Tide. Helen Hockenhull noted:
The old man’s courtship is an ancient joke of which country folk never seemed to tire. This version of the song comes from Essex and appeared in the Musical Miscellany in 1730. It seems to be widespread in Scotland and other versions have also been found in Yorkshire and the West Country.
Lynched (now known as Lankum) sang The Old Man From Over the Sea on their 2014 CD Cold Old Fire. This video was shot at their album launch on 25 May 2015 in the Button Factory Dublin:
Jon Wilks sang There Was an Old Man Came Over the Sea on his 2018 album Midlife. He noted:
I first heard this song performed by Lankum, not realising that a version was collected in my neck of the woods. I eventually found it in Roy Palmer’s book, Songs of the Midlands. It was collected by W.H.D. Rouse in 1899, from a chap called G. Hayward, living in Newbold near Rugby.
Rouse was there to watch a mummers play, and, as it came to an end, the individual actors stepped forward and offered up a solo performance. “Each of the players had one or more songs,” explains Rouse, “but most of them were music hall ditties or the like”. One can only imagine the hushed silence as Hayward stepped up and delivered this decidedly un-festive song, full of forced marriage, forced sex and death. I wonder if Hayward was generally known for being this inappropriate…
Piers Cawley sang The Old Man From Lee on his 2020 download album Isolation Sessions #3. He noted:
This is the nearest we get to smut in this session, but it’s more like the flip side of it. I got this from my wife, one of the finest singers I know, and this is pretty much a straight lift. I asked her where she got it from, but she doesn’t remember.
This folk song ‘plot’ is often played for laughs in songs like The Whirly Whorl or Maids When You’re Young Never Wed an Old Man, but when you think about it for even a few seconds, the story is horrific and it’s what stuck with me. Another awful parent in a folk song. It’s quite the theme.
Woodlands (Kristina Leesik and Justyna Krzyżanowska) sang The Old Man From Over the Sea in 2020 on their eponymous album Woodlands.
Pagoda Project sang Old Man, with the penultimate verse written by Hannah Cumming, on their 2026 album Eddies. They noted:
From the The Penguin Book of English Folk Songs, a reworked version of the light hearted cautionary tale of unwanted marriage.
Lyrics
Jeannie Robertson sings Old Grey Beard Newly Shaven
A dottered auld carle came ower the lee;
Ha ha but I would nae hae him;
He come ower the lee and a’ to court me,
Wi’ his grey beard newly shaven.
My mither tellt me tae open the door.
I opened the door and he tottered in o’er.
My mither tellt me tae gie him a chair.
I gied him a chair and he sit on the flair.
My mither tellt me to gie him some meat.
I gied him some meat but he’d nae teeth to eat.
My mither tellt meto gie him a drink,
I gied him a drink and he began to wink.
My mither tellt meto gie him a kiss.
If you like him so well you can kiss him yoursel’.
Frankie Armstrong sings The Old Man From Over the Sea
There was an old man come over the sea,
Eh, but I’ll not have him.
There was an old man come over the sea,
Come sniffellin’, snuffelin’, over on me,
With his long grey beard, with his long grey beard,
A‐shivering and shaking.
My mother she told me to bid him come in,
And he giggled and dribbled all over his chin.
My mother she told me to give him a stool,
Well I gave him a stool and he sat like a fool.
My mother she told me to give him some cake,
And the silly old fool wriggled just like a snake.
My mother she told me to pass him the sugar,
And he shivelled and shovelled it down like a bugger.
My mother she told me to take him to bed,
And the daft old devil nigh stood on his head.
My mother told me to show him what to do,
But the silly old cod couldn’t learn how to screw.
My mother she told me to bid him farewell,
Well I bid him farewell and I wished him in hell.
Jane Turriff sings Wi His Grey Baird Newly Shaven
An aul man he cam owre the lea,
Aha bit I widnae hae him
He cam ower the lea for tae coon me,
Wi his grey baird newly shaven.
My mother tellt me tae gie ’im a chair,
Aha bit I widnae hae ’im;
I gied ’im a chair an ’e sat on the flair,
Wi ’is grey baird newly shaven.
My mither tellt me tae gie ’im a drink,
Aha bit I widnae hae him,
Bit I gied him a drink, an he began tae wink,
Wi his grey baird newly shaven.
My mither tellt me tae gie him a kiss,
Aha bit I widnae hae him;
If ye like him as wed, ye can kiss him yersel,
Wi his grey baird newly shaven.
Lizzie Higgins sings The Dottered Auld Carle
A dottered aul carle cam ower the lea;
Oh-ho, but I wouldnae hae him;
He cam ower the lea, an aa tae court me,
Wi his grey baird newly shaven.
Ma mither telt me tae open the door;
Ah-ha, but I wouldnae hae him.
I opened the door, and he stottered3 in o’er,
Wi his grey baird newly shaven.
Ma mither telt me tae gie him a chair.
Ah-ha-ha-ha, it’s I wouldnae hae him.
I gaed him a chair and he sat on the flair,
Wi his grey baird newly shaven
Ma mither telt me tae gie him some meat,
But, ah-ha-ha, it’s I wouldnae hae him.
I gaed him some meat, he had nae teeth tae eat,
Wi his aul grey baird newly shaven.
Ma mither telt me tae gie him a drink.
Ah-ha, it’s I wouldnae hae him.
I gaed him a drink, he begun tae wink,
Wi his aul grey baird newly shaven
Ma mither telt me tae gie him a kiss,
But ah-ah-ha, it’s I wouldnae hae him.
“If ye like him sic weel, ye can kiss him yersel
Wi his aul grey baird newly shaven.
“Wi his grey beard newly shaven
Wi his grey beard newly shaven
If ye like him sic weel, ye can kiss him yersel,
Wi his aul grey baird newly shaven.
Wi his aul grey baird newly shaven.
Wi his aul grey baird newly shaven.
If ye like him sic weel, ye can kiss him yersel,
Wi his aul grey baird newly shaven.”
Mabs Hall sings Old Grey Noddle
There was an old sailor came over the seas
Ha-ha but I won’t have him
Came over the seas on purpose for me
With his old grey noddle, old grey noddle,
Old grey noddle a-shaking.
My mother told me to bring him a chair.
I brought him a chair, but he sat like a bear.
Then mother said won’t you bring him a stool.
I brought him a stool but he sat like a fool.
Then Mother she said you should cook him some tart.
I made him some tart, he said, “Thank you sweetheart.”
Then mother said will I put him to bed.
I put him to bed but I wished he was dead.
Then mother said would I hurry and wed.
I said I’d not wed—so I shot him instead.
Grace Notes sing The Old Man From Lee
There was an old man came o’er from Lee,
Eh, but I’ll not have him.
There was an old man came o’er from Lee,
A-courting me, a-courting me,
With his old grey beard, with his old grey beard
Just newly shaven.
My mother she told me to get him some pie.
I got him some pie and he left the crust by.
My mother she told me to hand him a stool.
I hand him a stool and he sat like a fool.
My mother she told me to give him some wine,
I gave him some wine and he drank like a swine.
My mother she told me to take him to bed.
I took him to bed and he asked me to wed.
My mother she told me to take him to church.
I took him to church but left him in the lurch.